When I think about it, most of my problems stem from relationships and probably so do most peoples, past ones, current ones and the most important of all, the relationship with ourselves. I was quite surprised to find this section empty!

My problem with relationships seems quite complex. I have a very good close relationship with my children (Im a single mom) I am very friendly, people seem to like me and I get on well with everyone, I have people that I go to lunch with at work and occasionally go out with, but its all superficial stuff. I come home, close my door and apart from my kids absolutely no one is really close to me. I'm aware that I need to form close relationships but it is so difficult for me, its virtually impossible. I believe it will all go wrong at some point anyway, my expectations will be disproportionate or they will let me down in some way, it will go pear shaped in some way it always does!

I am miserable isolated and lonely, absolutely hate being by myself it makes me depressed and I am bored. sometimes its so unbearable I have to get out of the house even in the middle of the night I have on occasion just gone for a drive! yet I constantly cement that very isolation that tortures me and although I can understand this in relation to my past, I havent got a clue how to change it. I dont know where to start!

What I find when seeing couples is that problems arise when they both have expectations from each other. When one wants the other to fulfill a need that they have. I agree that we mostly come with baggage from the past and as such have a certain amount of insecurities, but when we look to another to fulfill those gaps for us, we are going to come up against difficulties. This, I feel can apply to all kinds of relationships. When we give to another, maybe we should not have an expectation of getting something back, but just give for the joy of giving? When we feel confident in ourselves, we can do this because it really doesn't matter. We have enough reserves left inside ourselves to see that we are ok just as we are. Of course there are going to be exceptions to this. We cannot allow others to always take advantage of us. When getting to know someone we might be spending the rest of our lives with, we also have to consider what we can live with and what we cant, but I believe in being a loving person and most of all loving ourselves.

I agree that problems in relationships stem from our past and how we have come to relate. I believe that it is about being able to healthily depend on another and when things went wrong with our dependency as children then it will also be wrong in adult relationships - and for me that is what the crux of counselling is about - learning to relate in a more healthy and fulfilling way for the rest of our lives. We should expect to give and take - not to give and expect nothing back, or to take unconditionally- but when our expectations are unhealthy and based on fantasy (because that is all we have to base them on!) that will effect the relationship. For me it's about trust and a mutuality - an ability to give aswell as take - to be able to realise the limitations of the other and to respect our own limitations and where we have come from. I also believe that no one person is able to meet all our needs - so we need a circle of friends around us, each one of them having the ability to see us and relate to us differently and to meet needs in different ways. xx

Hi there, after reading this I thought, if you are searching for intimacy then this is your challenge...

"I am miserable isolated and lonely, absolutely hate being by myself it makes me depressed and I am bored. sometimes its so unbearable I have to get out of the house even in the middle of the night I have on occasion just gone for a drive! yet I constantly cement that very isolation that tortures me and although I can understand this in relation to my past, I havent got a clue how to change it. I dont know where to start!"

It's the most amazing feeling to open up completely to another person, to share deep sadness or deep joy but it takes time to reach that point. I seem to need more than just one person in my life who I can share my feelings with.

So maybe... the internet(msn?), talking on the telephone, day or evening classes, forums like this, support groups are all places where you might find what you are looking for.

Maybe you have found one of lifes endless challenges Kirsty and in my view it's a very personal journey of discovery.

Sharing the journey here can help I believe.

Martin

Thank you Martin, your comments are helpful. I have some dilemmas in this however

When I have felt that I have been open with my feelings and they have been understood, its a kind of feeling of connection for a while which is lovely, the problem then is it wakes up needs in me where my expectations of people are too much, I just need more and more and more love from them and of course, that isnt realistic. Feelings just arent realistic always though and they dont behave when something is logical or not. Otherwise my emotions would listen when I tell them they are being illogical!

I find it so hard to cope with fleeting connections with people because they always leave me bereft when they have ended, so I dont get into any and consequently spend too much time alone, get bored and depressed. I actually dont know how to have a close reciprocal relationship unless I am the carer. I find the whole relationship thing extremely complicated, always think they wont like me and yet I have very good social skills and I am friendly with everyone, all superficial though. You're right its intimacy that I need and have lacked! I dont know how to correct that though

When you want more and more from others and are not satisfied with what someone gives, this is a need within you. The need to feel good about yourself and to feel really cared for and loved. We can search for this in others hoping somehow that this person will be able to give us something, but it never feels enough, does it? And actually it is not always about people letting us down, it can be about our expectations of others. When we look to find our self esteem through something external, other people, because people are not perfect they can always let you down in some way, because what you are craving or need cannot really be fulfilled by someone else. So we cut ourselves off, because we feel we cant trust others and we are left alone with ourselves and we feel depressed because actually we cant trust ourselves either to look after us. We do not believe we have the tools, that is why we can latch onto others because maybe they have. In order to reach real intimacy with another person, we have to feel good in our own skin first, because if we can accept our own failings and faults and if we can learn to be kind to ourselves and feel secure in our own skin, then and only then do we have the resources to allow others to be imperfect too. It's then that we can find true intimacy.

Hi Kirsty,

I can identify with what you say thank you for sharing a little more. I have recognised in myself how through my 'external' relationships I have either felt alive or alone.

Thankfully I have had enough stamina and social support to guide me on my journey and the challenge of 'intimacy or solitude' has been one I have thought about and explored and still do.

There are books that discuss this subject in detail so maybe you could read about relationships and the search for intimacy or even 'google' those subjects and see what you find.

It's a journey of self discovery and it's one I have thoroughly enjoyed even though at times it's been tough.

I have gained a lot of understanding with this in therapy. Its all tied in with attachment disorder and I am still reasoning from some baby place. Whilst it feels good to understand whats going on and it takes away my fear of my own feelings, it hasnt taken away the sense of something missing in me which is huge. Its like I have been trying to hobble through life on one leg almost I'm always hungry for something.

Gillian, I know and agree with what you are saying, I think you speak oodles of sense, but I dont believe anyone can just love themselves and not need from others just for the asking. Even though they may know that this is the right 'ideal' position to be in. I just cant do it - love myself! I cannot love me unless I first feel loved, I cannot feel connected and validated unless someone first connects and validates me. I feel like I need someone to believe I am okay before I can feel that I am okay. I believe that is the only way I am ever going to be able to have that sense of feeling okay within myself and not be so needy al the time.

I do agree that my expectations are disproportionate and its why I'm let down or feel abandoned, I know it, but all the logic in the world doesnt seem to transmit to my feelings that seem to just go off on one!

I'll get there! Its a painful slog though. I think despite the difficult some weeks, that I have a really good therapist that helps my fears to not be so huge all the time

Martin I cant say I have found my journey so far as enjoyable, flaming depressing and scary actually ! but I can really understand how self discovery could be .. well especially when you are some way through the tunnel and out the other end. Thank you Martin and Gillian

I'm off to bed, nite x

I Know what you are saying Kirsty. If you are fortunate enough to find someone who can give you the love and security that you need, this of course can help you to feel more secure and more loved and maybe can stabilise you quite a bit in life. I agree that the first relationship is the most important. The one with parents or carers. If this is not how it should be, then we are left with a sense of insecurity and lack of trust, so if someone comes along and gives us the time and patience that we need, we can certainly heal from some of our wounds. This would take a very special type of person. But what do we do in the meantime? What if someone like this never comes along? Through good therapy, I believe it can also be achieved by slowly learning how we can take care of our own needs. Yes, I do believe that we need some validation from others as well. We are not islands that live alone and I agree that a loving relationship is a nurturing one. But on both sides. If we are wounded, we cannot give this nurturance. I am trying to explain that it is about learning to trust yourself, making hard decisions, to not let yourself down. To make right choices. To do what is ultimately good for you. This is how you learn to trust yourself.

The problem with 'Relationships' is that people do not relate!

Very few people are open and honest either with themselves or with others. Few people are direct about what they believe; what they want; or what they feel; and much of life's relationships is based on assumption, generalisation, or guesswork.

If only people would say what they truly mean and truly mean what they say!

If I am feeling tired or depressed after a difficult day at work and my wife asks me how I am, should I protect her by saying "OK" or should I seek her support by replying truthfully?

If my friend does something that annoys or upsets me should I pretend it does not happen to avoid risking upsetting my friend, or should I be honest and risk either losing a friend or strengthening the relationship by that honesty?

What is it I say about risk again?

Oh! I sooo agree with you Andy. People don't always say what they mean and mean what they say. I believe there could be many reasons for this. As you say, some people make assumptions or protect another by not speaking the truth. Honesty is one of the things that is so essential for a relationship and of course in that honesty there are going to be times when honesty hurts. But it depends on the way it is related to another. If related with love and respect, hopefully it can help both partners to reflect, but if done with criticism and lack of care, it can be hurtful and can injure and distance people from one another.

It is amazing (though maybe it shouldn't be) just how those first key relationships have such an effect on the way we relate later in life. Insight into how you relate yourself can certainly help but the real power comes in actually experiencing a new way of relating. This is what can be most effective in the therapy room as a therapist is trained to deal with your own unique way of relating and help you overcome the difficulties (in transference) that so damage 'normal' relationships.

I also tend to attract people by trying to be helpful and liked because I think that is how i got positive affirmation as I grew up. I'm the youngest (by over three years) of three siblings in quite an 'intellectual' family so found it difficult to relate in the same way as the rest of the family so I got my esteem by other methods. I guess one of the challenges of life is to realise that this is just one way of relating and every person is capable of more than one way.

As for the 'need' that is slightly different. Attachment theory provides an enlightening way of understanding that. If a baby wasn't given 'enough' attention or comfort I think it follows that this can leave an adult feeling as though they always 'need' more and to fill a long lasting void. This can also be expressed in other ways, like always needing more in the way of food, possessions and so on. In fact an intimate relationship can make such a person treat their loved one as a possession rather than a unique person to be celebrated. This stage is also linked to trust and dependancy hence being frightened to trust in intimacy and also 'clingy' behaviour....or so the theory goes! I'm defintely come across a lot of supporting 'evidence' for such theories but they can never explain a full person - they are just an attempt to help understand a person.

I dont' find it amazing that more people should know this. We have been lucky inasmuch as we have experienced different theoretical viewpoints in our quest for becoming counsellors. We have been open to a bit of enlightenment and awareness and sometimes understanding what is going on for us can be liberating. Most people are unconscious about what is going on.

I get that Gilly and agree in the path I took allowed me insights into being human and varying approaches to human behaviour and nature and developement, yet it still feels to me strange that its not obvious perhaps I have forgotten what feels most obvious to me is not to others mmmm........... awareness coming

I hear you dont find it amazing because of your journey.

Always chance to learn more hey Gilly forever

umm .. but I think this is largely based on the assumption that self awareness naturally brings healing, I dont believe it does. If you know why you blush does it make you blush any less?

I am not knocking being aware, quite the opposite, I think self awareness is a the basis and pre-requisite to any healing, but it doesnt in itself bring about healing

I have awareness and insight into my problems in abundance. I know exactly why i have the problems I have, can retrace them back to their origins in detail and could write a book on how I got here .. but still I experience life in the same way - albeit more aware of what is going on, but nevertheless still experiencing pain and struggle

Where relationships are concerned, I am isolated and alone, its not that I am not able to be friendly and 'relate' I do! I am actually liked and quite popular at work and with the people that I do associate with, but its a very superficial kind of friendliness, even though I quite like people, I do not know how to allow any emotional attachments, so I close my door at the end of the day where I feel very alone and unhappy, but safe. I dont do what I most need to do because even though lonliness is intolerable the fear and inevitable consequences for me emotionally of it all going pear-shaped, or worse - abandonment, are far bigger. I know clearly because this is because my initial "caregivers" abandoned me and hurt me repeatedly and set the wiring for future expectations and ways of being.

I have another extreme to my attachment problems when I do 'let someone in' usually when its someone caring and supportive, male or female (and I'm heterosexual it isnt about that!) I then have a kind of switch inside where I literally feel like a small child and need that person desperately. The need for validation and connection from that person is no less intense than a small child screaming to be picked up. I need to be their child. I need them to love me at a level that is off the wall! I switch from being isolated and cut off to the other extreme and being obsessively attached to someone. This has inevitable consequences becuase its totally unrealistic in an adult relationship .. so its another reason why I have to avoid emotional attachments. But I understand why this happens perfectly

I dont believe however that this fear and way of reasoning is set in stone, I think 'reprogramming' can happen. I will certainly have a good go at least, at addressing it. That process alone, even with a therapist, holds a degree of terror for me, but the choices I feel are to try and change this or just die because it is a kind of death otherwise, its certainly a very unhappy existence.

But yes .. I believe Bowlby was right. The first five (and probably first 3) years of our lives form the basis for all other relationships in our lives, the most important I think is the relationship with ourselves. A small child without a loving secure mirror grows up with the clear idea that they are definitely not okay! Attachment disorder and problems I think are often overlooked in therapy, wherby people are treated for eating disorders, depression, anxiety etc., when the real issue, their early disorganised or insecure attachment pattern, is overlooked. At least that has been my experience over the years ...until recently