I have found the thread on self-esteem very interesting and the posts have raised questions that perhaps some of you can help me with.

One of the posts suggested that people who lack self-esteem are people who measure themselves against others, whereas if we do have self-esteem, it is because we are happy with ourselves (warts and all) whether or not we measure up to others.

On the face of it, that seems fine. However, we live in a very competitive society. Competition, by its very nature, means measuring oneself against others whether on the sports field or when applying for a job or as a pupil or student sitting exams etc., etc.

One might suppose the people who are habitually successful in their field or endeavour enjoy high self-esteem. But what about those who are not considered successful? People who, for example, are not particularly good at sports, people who are overweight, people who don’t get promotion at work or people who have 'ordinary' jobs or people who don’t have a job at all or people who have mental health problems etc., etc., etc. In a competitive society, such people are generally considered ‘failures’.

So there seems to be a sort of contradiction here. On the one hand, as a society, we value competition, yet we also claim to recognise the value of high self-esteem in the individual as well as the damage done by low self-esteem.

So this raises a question: With the exception of the select few who are 'successful' in their field, is high esteem in a competitive society possible? And if so, how do we teach self-esteem in such a society?

What springs to mind here is depends on how an individual chooses to measure themself by what they have attatined? by their work or sports successes? or by their own inner methods?

Quote:

that people who lack self-esteem are people who measure themselves against others

If I choose to measure myself based on societies perceptions then I may lack self esteem...

Quote:

But what about those who are not considered successful? People who, for example, are not particularly good at sports, people who are overweight, people who don’t get promotion at work or people who have 'ordinary' jobs or people who don’t have a job at all or people who have mental health problems etc., etc., etc. In a competitive society, such people are generally considered ‘failures’.

My self esteem and how I value self has nothing to do with others perceptions or musts or shoulds.

An interesting topic LLOD looking forward to others views.

We can still be competetive and have high self esteem. It's how we see ourselves and whether we believe in ourselves that counts. If we are competetive because we feel we "should" be able to achieve the same as others, or if our self concept is dependant on how others see us, then I would consider this not really believing in yourself. When we believe in ourselves, we can be competetive, but still sometimes others will win over us, but this does not mean we stop believing in ourselves. There will always be another time and place.

Hi llod,

Good subject. Some thoughts on your post:

LLOD wrote:

One might suppose the people who are habitually successful in their field or endeavour enjoy high self-esteem.

Depending on how you define success, not necessarily. In the case of material success, high achievers can often feel that they are failures in other aspects of their lives. People can be driven by a wide range of things, including low self-esteem, and still achieve in other areas of their lives. For me, it all depends on semantics: how do you define, and measure, success and achievement?

LLOD wrote:

People who, for example, are not particularly good at sports, people who are overweight, people who don’t get promotion at work or people who have 'ordinary' jobs or people who don’t have a job at all or people who have mental health problems etc., etc., etc. In a competitive society, such people are generally considered ‘failures’.

By whom? By themselves? By others? Who are these others?

My point is this: society generally may value competition (although even that is debateable - for me, capitalism is the encourager of competition and our society happens to be linked to capitalism), but within that society there are many people that do not. Like most things, it depends on what the competition hopes to achieve and how much importance is placed on it, what the consequences are if it is won/lost, etc. Society is made up of individuals and not all inividuals see competition in the same light.

Regarding self-esteem, for me the clue's in the words: it's esteem for yourself, and it's there regardless, i.e. it isn't based on the results of any competition. To base your self-esteem on the results of competitions is, to me, a bit dubious. The results of competition, like any other form of experience, may affect my self-image - in terms of what I feel I am and am not good at, what I do or don't like doing, etc. but it wouldn't really affect my self-esteem (although in the past it would have) insomuch as I would still feel that I had value and worth. .

Based on the this, I'd say that competition and self-esteem aren't mutually incompatible in our society. As for how to teach it, there are whole philosophies and books on the subject, all different in their approach. Perhaps the fundamental teaching would be the value and importance placed on competition, with particular attention paid to areas such as: who wants you to compete? Why compete? What do you hope to achieve? What happens if you win? Or lose? What price are you prepared to pay (in terms of material and emotional aspects)?

I'm sat here thinking...

How on earth can anyone measure esteem?

That it's completely individual and subjective.

That it's based on our perception of ourselves compared with something else.

Good topic.

I think it is perfectly possible to have high self regard without being competitive. Yes, capitalism does encourage competitiveness and seems to give the message that happiness is directly related to financial wealth or success. However, I feel it is more likely to have positive self regard if you can see through this message, can think for yourself and have confidence in your own opinions and beliefs.
If you can help to develop your full self and express yourself through your talents then you are really creating and experiencing you full self and I think that is rather wonderful!
I also think humans operate better when co-operation is achieved rather than competition but I don't think that means self-esteem cannot be linked to competitiveness either. It all depends on where your talents lay and I certainly feel there is such a thing as healthy competition.