What about "Three strikes and you're out"?

Everyone makes mistakes occasionally and it's easy to type something, particularly in the heat of the moment, that either can be easily misconstrued or is just plain inappropriate. Humour is a good example: what seems funny to one person may be offensive to another, and sometimes you (OK, for "you", read "I") don't know where that line is until it's been crossed. I also believe that everyone is capable of learning from their mistakes. So, if someone is pulled up for the same thing three times then maybe, for whatever reason, they aren't taking on board the feedback from others.

I fully understand the argument about seeing things from others' frame of reference and all behaviour being based on positive intentions but, at the end of the day, this is a public forum, not a one-to-one counselling relationship, so for the good (and safety) of all then, for me, there has to be some minimum acceptable standards and a way of implementing them. Again, I'm aware that this could be construed as not being the most person-centred perspective so I'm offering it as a suggestion - something to get the ball rolling maybe?

Thank you both to Martin and DW for further suggestions. I agree it seems harse Martin but also agree that there needs to be a recognised boundary and outcome for those boundaries. In the past it has always been very difficult to bring about bans on this board and in the past there has always been disagreements in what constituted a ban and what not because of differring opinons this will always be the case so it is obvious that the need for admin/mod decision not questioned is needed after a clear set of boundaries. In the past each situation has been taken individually very PC and in the counselling way and yet I agree DW this is not one on one counselling and it is not what is being offerred. A persons place has been considered in the past but this led to confusion and it seemed one rule for one and another rule for the rest so a more uniform approach is called for now. We all have choices when we come here and if the choice is to offend and cause upset and intentionally press peoples buttons then it will be seen and steps taken to issue warnings. Im pleased Martin you recognise were you are at with this and haveing had two warnings are in a very sketchy place, like hanging by a thread im sorry this is the case for you.

May I just add a thought here------------------There are many members here (myself included ) who may not know enough about other members stories, and may quite innocently not know what another might have difficulty with.

This is one of the dangers of private spaces as, quite legiimately, things are shared there that many members are not privvy to. I have sometimes wondered, do people rush in, with good intention, to rescue those who they see as vulnerable?

I am not a frequently posting member, for reasons of my own, but I AM a daily member, as the site is really important to me. However I do sometimes feel I have "missed somethng" and that can feel like a disadvantage at times, as I genuinely dont always know where other people "are". If I, or anyone else, am not privvy to another's distress then it can be relatively easy, unfortunately, to upset another member.

As others have said-"intent" is important, and I also do feel we all have responsibility to speak for ourselves----------------it is one of the mosr basic tenets of counseleing-to encoursge a client to speak as "I".

having trouble making sense tonight-I hope I have conveyed a little of what I feel.

I don't think it's a case of 'accidentally' upsetting someone, or someone being 'triggered' by what is said.

The issue most of us seem to be referring to in this thread is something that has been going on for months, and martin has been told several times by other members and by admin that his posts are upsetting to others in certain situations and he has been given the reason why. It is not just one person being 'triggered', it is a case of several of us feeling that we get repeatedly attacked for our views.

I'm saying this because I wouldn't want any of our newer or less active members to feel worried about posting in case they upset someone.

Differing opinions are always welcome but there has to be a level of respect towards others and their opinions, as well as towards the choices we all make in regards to how we lead our lives and whether we choose to have therapy or not.

It saddens me that some do feel "attacked", and I know I am not on the recieving end of that so am not in touch with how that feels for some of you, I can reaaly hear that Josephine, and I am sad this has hurt you so much. BUT I have to share that, as an observer, nothing I have read appears like a deliberate "attack". certainly I can see that t is sometimes recieved as that, but I would be wrong to collude and state that none of us are free to raise issues if we so wish, in case we upset others.

As I write I am conscious that I am possibly getting into my own stuff-never realising that I had a right NOT to be hurt...............but that apart, I feel mutual respect is important, and sometimes that means hearing or discussing something we feel at total odds with................being able to hear anothers point of view, whilst still holding our own, can be deeply healing............but YES I kniw we have to be in the right place. kNowng wether or not ANOTHER person is inthe right place also takes skill and insight, and sometimes knowledge of the other which often cannot come about on site such as this. Some memebers know each other well, others less so, so cannot always know what effect their words are having.

Like I say it saddens me anyone is hurt, and i am hearing many emotions here---but feel I also have to add my own-with respect.

Please kanga could you stop trying to say that how i feel is not right. While you constantly keep on saying that you see no harm i feel undermined. Why do you have to debate whether or not it's true - it is true - we did feel attacked and it is not for you to say otherwise. If you felt arracked and upset i would be there for you and know that yoiur feelings are valid - it is nothing to do with how i feel - if you were hurt that would be good enough. Can we not keep on with that and could you please accept the way i feel about this. I am feeling like i am completely unheard while you keep trying to say that what happened to me was nothing. I am really fed up with it now and actually feel very angry and hurt. It has become obvious that Martin feels intimidated by those of us who are doing such deep work - those are his words. He has even stated he is afraid of me for that reason. Due to this i have been attacked and critiscised for being in long term analytical therapy - even when i have been in the depths of despair he has tried to undermine that and tell me it's not doing me any good. That was attacking something that is vital to me - i am in the middle pf a huge and painful transference. Please don't try to tell me that it isn't painful when he does that or that it isn't an attack. He attacked the one thing that is important to me right now - the thing that is saving my life. It can be understood the first time it happened but then when it happens again and again then that becomes abusive in my opinion. So please don't tell me it was nothing. And now just to top it he wants to start a debate about that very thing - to yet again share his thoughts that it is of little importance and it is not right to feel at such a deep level. Can you see how that might feel just a tad personal?

Josephine - i feel the same way as you and you put it so elpoquently. This for me is only to do with the incidents that occured over a period of time with Martin - and whether he agrees or not i got hurt and felt attacked - and believe you me it takes alot to get me to that place. I have never felt this way before with anyone who comes here and i am very open to all that you say.

Roses - i hear what you are saying and you speak kindly and wisely. You won't have been able to see any of what went on as it happened on mine and other's private threads. So i appreciate that you don't actually know what happened.

I feel very sad that i have once again had to come here and defend myself. I wanted to stay away but as yet again it feels i am being told that my pain was nothing and i am mistaken i feel i had to respond.

Fran

Ok guys. There is alot of thought and processes going on in this thread and part of me (the admin part) wants to close this thread as it is starting to be very personal again to one person. The other part of me (the facilitator) is wanting you all to work this out for yourselves I see much of this happening but I cant stand by and allow one person to be targeted and in turn others brought into it.

Fact a member wrote comments in three members spaces over a few months challenging comments about how he saw their therapy his comments came from a respectful place FOR HIM and from a place of wanting to make things better for the person out of love FOR HIM. This person has very strong views about therapy and is very open in expressing his views, his appraoch is another approach to counselling and is based very much in the cognitive model. The memebrs expressed their upset at his comments which left THEM feeling attacked and all wrong in their choice of therapy these feelings are real and they are entiltled to these feelings it is THEIRS. They requested that the member not post such views and challenges in their section and after repeated comments removed him from their space to keep themselves safe. The member has repeatingly opologised for his comments and is awre fully that his views are not the views of these members and recognises that were these members are, in choosing their own style of therapy is their choice and although he doesnt agree is happy to accept their choice. The final upset came when said member brought this issue to the main board his intention he stated was to debate about therapy his mistake he now sees was to bring members name to debate. Rightly so the members were again feeling hurt and attacked again these feelings valid to them and ok to express. It has got to the place now that this is being re played whenever attempts by myself or Dibs to move this along for the benifit of the whole group. This is not happening as there is obviously alot of hurt and brusied feelings still around.

Please keep this space this thread to discussing what YOU need to keep this place safe all comments are being noted and as stated this weekend me and dibs will be forming a new contract to be reviewed be you all.

I'm prepared to accept that this is my stuff, however this thread seems to be going from general discussion to specific instances and I'm not too comfortable with this.

I'm not having a go at anyone with this post - I get the message - loud and clear - that some of us feel very affected by what's been brought up by this thread and I certainly wouldn't want to be seen as trivialising this: emotions this strong have validity and to question that could be seen as disrespectful. However, it feels like this thread is in danger of becoming personal and losing its original direction.

I think I'm expressing a feeling that I got when I came on to the board this morning - there seems to be a lot of anger and defensiveness around in this thread and I'm a bit taken aback by it.

DW, I understand what you are saying but at the same time I have to say that because this thread started after a specific instance, it is hard not to connect it to that.

To me it almost feels like we are having to change the rules to fit around one person - both to protect the rest of us, and to give that person another change, and then another, and another... All the problems on here in the past few months seem to have started after posts by one member - so it's hard to overlook that and just try to talk about the rules in general.

Anyway, I'm not going to reply in this thread after this. I know what I think, and I know everyone's views and I don't really see much learning or change going on in this thread, not surprisingly.

Seems like you had enough too!! But we have all survived it - together. xx